2018 Hellcat vs GT500

"Wobbles the Mind" (wobblesthemind)
02/05/2017 at 15:31 • Filed to: Modern Muscle

So Dodge reveiled that the Hellcat will get a power bump to 757 hp and knock out the 1/4 mile in 11.21 seconds. We also got another easter egg filled photo for the 2018 Mustang implying that the GT500 will have 755 hp and knockout the quarter mile in 11.17 seconds (or 11.218 seconds) out of the box.

Any thoughts? Especially considering the 650 hp Camaro ZL1 is doing 11.4 seconds in the quarter and we know an upgraded engine is on the way inside the Corvette ZR-1.

DISCUSSION (36)

crowmolly > Wobbles the Mind
02/05/2017 at 15:36

Has the 757hp been confirmed?

JGrabowMSt > Wobbles the Mind
02/05/2017 at 15:40

Horsepower number is incorrect. The drivetrain loss would have to be way more than 10-15% for the HP to be that low.

Think about it this way. The car isn’t going to run an 11.21 1/4 mile time if the original Hellcat was capable of 10.7s out of the box. How would that make sense for a car that weighs less?

Wobbles the Mind > crowmolly
02/05/2017 at 15:41

Nope, but since every publication is making up stuff I figured it’s open season. But I think that 757 hp doesn’t relate to the Demon, just the mid cycle update for the Hellcat since it’s been out for three years already.

DipodomysDeserti > JGrabowMSt
02/05/2017 at 15:41

Gearing and tires?

JGrabowMSt > DipodomysDeserti
02/05/2017 at 15:43

Well, I know for a fact it has more HP than 757. I can’t really say more than that though. I have friends in high places.

Wobbles the Mind > JGrabowMSt
02/05/2017 at 15:45

Hellcat, not Demon. It’s referencing an update to the car that’s been out for three years now. On the factory 275s the Hellcat Challenger was doing 11.7 which is why GM didn’t worry over the power difference with the then upcoming ZL1.

crowmolly > DipodomysDeserti
02/05/2017 at 15:47

Demon will have OK drag tires and the regular Hellcat is geared way down.

DipodomysDeserti > JGrabowMSt
02/05/2017 at 15:48

Teu should give it 1,776 horsepower

JGrabowMSt > Wobbles the Mind
02/05/2017 at 15:53

I disagree. They wouldn’t put Hellcat power as an easter egg on a Demon plaque.

On slicks, a base Hellcat without even a tune is capable of breaking into the 10.9-10.7 range depending on altitude.

The Demon is not going to be shown up by a 3 year old factory unmodified Hellcat.

You’re not giving FCA enough credit with how well they devise their easter eggs.

JGrabowMSt > DipodomysDeserti
02/05/2017 at 15:56

That would be so much ‘Murica.

11/10

415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°) > Wobbles the Mind
02/05/2017 at 15:56

Drag racing is stupid.

DipodomysDeserti > JGrabowMSt
02/05/2017 at 15:58

They should have it made in their Mexican factory. Now that would be American!

Wobbles the Mind > JGrabowMSt
02/05/2017 at 16:04

Why wouldn’t they hint at the updated “lower” model? They still have at least 8 more teasers to go weekly before April! Do you think it’s the detuned rating for the Demon when using the black key?

I find it weird that everyone is doing so many unit conversions and power splits between each tire when none of that matches the style of FCA with the muscle cars.

The car had big tires up front because how else would you get an extra set of drag tires to the track? Why did they pull out all the seats? So that you have a place for the crate full of skinny tires and tools! There really isn’t anything complex going on here!!

JGrabowMSt > DipodomysDeserti
02/05/2017 at 16:04

LOL You funny, I kill you last.

More on-track though, I have some reservations and concerns about the durability of the Demon. I don’t know displacement or blower size, but I know that when the original Hellcat motors were being tested, they were making a lot more than 707. They were de-tuned for durability. I have a friend with a Ray Barton race HEMI (478CI) in his car, same story. Made so much power (840hp, pump gas, NA), it was a little concerning for a “street” car, so it was de-tuned (730hp, pump gas, NA).

By and large, my biggest concern is the transfer case. Chrysler isn’t known for their durable transfer cases. There is a reason some of the fastest SRT8 Jeeps are converted to RWD only.

JGrabowMSt > Wobbles the Mind
02/05/2017 at 16:05

The Demon isn’t exclusively RWD. It has 315s up front for a reason.

Wobbles the Mind > JGrabowMSt
02/05/2017 at 16:12

It has 315s up front in order to have a set of spare tires for the track. You don’t track you street car with only one set of tires but the Challenger isn’t a truck. So you run the car on both sets of the Nittos and use the space from the missing seats for hauling the skinny tires and tools for changing your Challenger to the correct set up.

It’s all set up so that a person can transport everything they need by themselves in the car. Otherwise, what would be the use of all this equipment you’re getting with the car purchase? They gonna give you 50% off a Ram 1500 and a valet to drive it?

Wobbles the Mind > 415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°)
02/05/2017 at 16:15

Isn’t all racing? You’re just driving to get back to the same place you started...why do we even have sports for that matter? Why is Sprinting an Olympic Event?!

JGrabowMSt > Wobbles the Mind
02/05/2017 at 16:18

Interesting theory, I’ll run it past my friend and see how much he laughs.

G_Body_Man: Sponsored by the number 3 > JGrabowMSt
02/05/2017 at 16:26

Let me guess. New part time (?) transfer case shared with the Trackhawk GC to keep costs down?

JGrabowMSt > G_Body_Man: Sponsored by the number 3
02/05/2017 at 17:00

Honestly not sure. This part was not explained to me. I know some numbers, but only enough to know which rumors are on the right track.

My suspicion is some Benz type of reinforcing. Towards the end of the SLS, cylinder walls became bigger, pistons smaller. Helped for the extra boost. I wouldnt be surprised if the block is more stout and its a similar blower with a new pulley, but thats just my speculation.

I would like to see the service manual when its out though, I am curious about some parts and systems under the hood.

crowmolly > JGrabowMSt
02/05/2017 at 17:07

That’s both interesting and completely unnecessary. Unless they are having square DRs and AWD for people who want to street drive 1000+ hp (if that rumor is true).

My bird IS the word > Wobbles the Mind
02/05/2017 at 17:13

Mustang for sure. The challenger is cool and comfy but definitely the ‘stang will have better performance.

G_Body_Man: Sponsored by the number 3 > JGrabowMSt
02/05/2017 at 17:15

Makes sense, although the earlier clue about a 2.6 litre blower would be awesome if it’s true. I wonder if they’ll use the shift tuning tricks they picked up with the 8HP75 in the Giulia Quadrifoglio. From what I hear, the biggest issue with the Trackhawk was that the AWD system just couldn’t handle the power. Since they’ll probably be throwing the 8HP90 and a stronger front diff and t-case in that anyways, it would only make sense to find another application to split costs, and the massive trans tunnel in the Challenger made to accommodate the big ol’ TR-6060 with room to spare should be a suitable application. The biggest issue with extracting more power from the Hellcat is probably heat, which is why spy shots show larger vents and scoops and whatnot. The all wheel drive theory that Car And Driver came up with is starting to hold more water, as running 20.3 psi of boost from a twin screw sounds absolutely ridiculous.

JGrabowMSt > crowmolly
02/05/2017 at 17:43

Less than 1000 factory, but once people start to modify them, all bets are officially off.

JGrabowMSt > G_Body_Man: Sponsored by the number 3
02/05/2017 at 18:50

The AWD is not a theory. Dont know the split front to rear though.

This just reminds me of the Ford transmission issues when they decided not to go with the tried and tested Getrag or ZF units. Hopefully FCA went with an existing unit, otherwise, I could see a bit of problems with the car.

The boost I dont know, but I have not seen a single correct theory about the license plate numbers.

G_Body_Man: Sponsored by the number 3 > JGrabowMSt
02/05/2017 at 19:03

I was more referring to the peak torque multiplied through the drivetrain and then split among four wheels theory that C&D came up with. A while ago, the local dealer said that he had been to a meeting, and that they’d be coming out with two AWD Challengers. I was skeptical at first, but then the GT came out, and those Hellcat-based test mules with super wide tires were spotted running around.

JGrabowMSt > G_Body_Man: Sponsored by the number 3
02/05/2017 at 23:00

The numbers on the plate are irrelevant with regards to any amount of power or torque.

The LC platform for the Challenger has honestly just been begging for AWD. There are only very slight differences between the LC and the LX, despite what a lot of people try to claim. Sure, theres the wheelbase and slight firewall shape, but considering the research Ive done regarding my Magnum, the Challenger getting AWD is no surprise for me. It really just lends a hand to competing with the V6 Mustang. Plenty of room under the hood for a healthy twin turbo build, and if the trans and transfer case are robust enough, they could easily compete in a lighter weight class.

I can only hope the Demon doesnt de-throne the Drag Pak, but if it does, by all means, make some of the OEM parts cheaper. I’d like to see the solid rear or the manual steering rack pop up for a bit cheaper than they are.

G_Body_Man: Sponsored by the number 3 > JGrabowMSt
02/05/2017 at 23:12

Neat.

TFen > JGrabowMSt
02/06/2017 at 23:20

You’re playing a dangerous game here.

All signs are pointing to RWD with swappable tires. Better hope your “friend” is, you know, a real person with real info or you’re going to look pretty silly making these types of comments on here.

Oppo is a pretty small community.

JGrabowMSt > TFen
02/07/2017 at 02:05

I’ll certainly keep those words in mind.

I know for a fact how much horsepower the motor is going to be officially rated for from the factory, and I also know that all of the big theories floating around regarding the license plate numbers are wrong.

If I thought I could get Ralph Gilles (or anyone else) to tell me more, I would, but as big a favor as I did a few months ago, it was already rewarded with an amazing experience.

Now, I’m skeptical of the AWD system, for my own reasons. Chrysler is not known for their transfer cases. That said, there are some stupid fast SRT8 Jeeps, and plenty of other AWD LX cars breaking into the 11 second range (and faster).

We already know the Trackhawk has reared it’s ugly head with the AWD system not being able to take the Hellcat power. Did they scrap it in the Demon? Time will tell, my sources certainly aren’t telling me any more than they already have. Just keep in mind, Ferrari didn’t let power or ride height get between them and making an AWD system that works in a very unique way. Let’s not forget who is under control over there.

RufKnight993 > JGrabowMSt
02/07/2017 at 12:40

I hope you also ran by the AWD option on the Demon...has the laughter subsided enough to hear the, “No”

TFen > JGrabowMSt
02/24/2017 at 01:30

So you were wrong about the AWD. I’d stop trusting the info your “friend” gives you.

You should probably go right to Ralph in the future. Lol.

Shoop > JGrabowMSt
02/24/2017 at 02:05

Of course awd is not a theory b/c it’s not happening.

A) A RWD with big enough slicks is faster than an equivalent awd on a prepped drag strip

B) they already had the teaser with the box of tools and the jacks

C) the ultimate drag car is rwd. Every muscle car, every funny car, they’re always rwd

D) They’re not going to developan entirely new drivetrain for this.

E)“friends in high places” dude weed lmao. No number, no facts that we haven’t heard before that make sense,

F) they’re not going to have a option for awd or rwd “Did you get the demon?” “Yeah but I didn’t get the fastest version”

G) TFO

theloudmouth > JGrabowMSt
02/24/2017 at 07:07

Agreed, it didn’t make sense for them to launch the regular AWD challenge otherwise. Granted even with AWD with the weight transfer you wouldn’t need front tires that wide but.

JGrabowMSt > theloudmouth
02/24/2017 at 08:57

My friends 550I doesnt even have 300 section tires up front, but hey, theyre wide for what it is.

I have little faith in FCA transfer cases, but if they found a way, good for them.

If you goose a GTR hard enough, it’ll do a RWD burnout too, so people need to remember that.

El Rocko > Wobbles the Mind
03/03/2017 at 14:02

VIN Number? WTF: Vehicle Identification Number Number. Does anyone know if there’s an ATM machine nearby?